Thread: 43 more Horses.. INCREDIBLE !!! I'm blown away !!

I wasn't pointing blame or in this case error. If you too it that way I apologize.
I was only trying to remind everyone of what was stated in the initial post since its been about a month since we all probably read it.

In my defense most dyno print outs use blue for torque and red for horse power not to differentiate between passes like this one that is for a standard 3.8 PA reflash:

So your print out is a little confusing... (even for me lol!)
and for the record I have never stated I was perfect! Just that I wanted accurate information. Which I do believe you have provided all of us Thank You!

Originally Posted by Mr Grynch

I wasn't pointing blame or in this case error. If you too it that way I apologize.
I was only trying to remind everyone of what was stated in the initial post since its been about a month since we all probably read it.

In my defense most dyno print outs use blue for torque and red for horse power not to differentiate between passes like this one that is for a standard 3.8 PA reflash:

So your print out is a little confusing... (even for me lol!)
and for the record I have never stated I was perfect! Just that I wanted accurate information. Which I do believe you have provided all of us Thank You!

LOL as well Mr.Jim aka Grynch

I'm feeling a little "vindicated" as I was clearly being attacked on this board. Lets not mince words... An attack of words and skepticism is an attack of ones character, one which I hold dearly and I defend vigorously. However, it took me time to warm up to this board and even care about the attacks but since it was bothering me, I figured I'd set the record straight.

As an FYI, I also originally thought the RED was one item (ie Horse Power) and BLUE was the other (ie. torque). The dyno sheet is a little confusing, but once studied, makes sense.

Have a great day and hopefully you can upgrade your car sooner than later and also enjoy some substantial gains. There is alot we can do to these Coupes to enhance them.


Later buddy,
red V6

Originally Posted by Mr Grynch

...In my defense most dyno print outs use blue for torque and red for horse power not to differentiate between passes like this one that is for a standard 3.8 PA reflash:

So your print out is a little confusing... (even for me lol!)
..!

Every other dyno I've ever gotten has has hp and ft/lbs from the same runs in the same color like redV6's...

Originally Posted by Crooked H

Every other dyno I've ever gotten has has hp and ft/lbs from the same runs in the same color like redV6's...

Thanks for clarifying the "consistency" of my data/info presentation.

Later,

redV6

Originally Posted by Insane

I'm a little confused here too. There can't be THAT much difference between a stock 3.8 and one with a intake and exhaust that would make a tune that much more aggressive unless I'm missing something. I wouldn't even really expect much of any gain at all with a CAI since the car already comes with a CAI. How about if you run 93 octane?

There goes your theory about intakes being just hype for tuners. You seriously left out a factor when you theorized the intakes are just hype. More air= higher combustion = more energy =more power.this is the most basic thing you learn when u study to be a mechanic. The better your air/fuel ratio is, the more power you will make. This is clearly shown in this thread.

And the genny does not come with a CAI. Its a standard intake.
But let's pretend it did. My G37 comes standard with dual cold air intakes. A factory intake will always cut corners. The rubber and plastic will be inhibiting to airflow. Not to mention mandrel bending is scientifically proven to increase airflow. Your thinking is way to simplistic on CAI's

That's your opinion and it's fine. I'm not sure where I said anything about it being hype for tuners? Do you want to explain to me how a CAI tube is going to get more air in the engine at speed than the factory ram air style intake is? The CAI while being more free flowing to a degree, is still going to just allow in the amount of air the engine can pull in under it's own vacuum. The factory setup at speed will be forcing air in to a degree as the air is being "pushed in" from it's own incoming velocity.

As for CAI's in general, I was just trying to say that on a NA car, they generally don't make large differences, and the differences they do make are more due to the MAF tuning leaning out the mixture over stock, rather than a larger volume of air going into the engine. Has anyone done a flow test of the incoming air volume with a CAI vs the factory intake? I'll also agree with you on most cars standard intakes, but seeing as this car is more of a performance oriented ram air style intake, I'm not sure it falls into the same category as your run of the mill passenger car. If the airbox was just connected to an open area behind the headlights, it would be more of a standard intake.

Now, when you start talking about FI engines, it's a whole different story.

just a forenote.. I'm not taking sides.

In a NA application a cold air intake benefits the engine by removing excess bends and compressions in the intake phlenum, by streamlining the airflow the engine requires less power to inhale on the intake cycle. When one cylinder is generating power it's powering all aspects of the engine, including moving a piston on an intake stroke. By having a restricted airflow more power is required to "vacuum" air, it has to pull the air into the cylinder otherwise it wouldn't get air at all.
By reducing power needed to pull air into the engine it increases throttle response and reduces parasitic losses, it also benefits the engine by allowing more air to enter during scavaging to clear out exhaust gasses to allow more air in during the intake cycle to increase air-fuel mixture to lower fuel consumed.
Electronically regulated vehicles are designed to respond to variables through sensors, those sensors must opperate in set parameters. If the engine is asked for more power, but can't get enough air, it will increase or decrease fuel to compensate. Resulting in either lower gasmilage or a weaker response.

Forced induction engines benefit the same way, more air, means it's easier to make intake pressure, means better air-fuel ratio, better fuel economy, more power and less exhaust hanging around in the next autocycle.

I'm not an automotive mechanic, but I do work on 2000HP diesels, turbo and non-turbo. For every degree you can drop your intake temperature, you gain 5% power, thats why turbo engines benefit so much from upgrading their stock intercoolers.

Originally Posted by Insane

That's your opinion and it's fine. I'm not sure where I said anything about it being hype for tuners? Do you want to explain to me how a CAI tube is going to get more air in the engine at speed than the factory ram air style intake is? The CAI while being more free flowing to a degree, is still going to just allow in the amount of air the engine can pull in under it's own vacuum. The factory setup at speed will be forcing air in to a degree as the air is being "pushed in" from it's own incoming velocity.

As for CAI's in general, I was just trying to say that on a NA car, they generally don't make large differences, and the differences they do make are more due to the MAF tuning leaning out the mixture over stock, rather than a larger volume of air going into the engine. Has anyone done a flow test of the incoming air volume with a CAI vs the factory intake? I'll also agree with you on most cars standard intakes, but seeing as this car is more of a performance oriented ram air style intake, I'm not sure it falls into the same category as your run of the mill passenger car. If the airbox was just connected to an open area behind the headlights, it would be more of a standard intake.

Now, when you start talking about FI engines, it's a whole different story.

Great explanation snoop.

Insane
Ummm you said that intakes were hype in the injen vs aem vs rrm thread. You specifically made that comment. Its kool though. I'm not attacking. But you are making opinions in areas where there's only facts. Intake upgrades are not only scientifically proven. They are Dyno proven.
Rubber intakes absorb a lot more heat, have way more bends, and the front airbox hinders airflow tremendously. These are facts. I promise you if you install one and drive it around for a week. You will feel a noticeable difference. Especially accelerations from 60 to 90 or 70 to 140... etc etc.

Hey guys, I'm not knocking anyone for getting a CAI, and it's not "hype" per se, it just seems like one of those things that everyone gets just to get. It's kinda like K & N filters. I never called it "hype" though. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, a CAI adds some power...I never said it didn't. Also, you are correct, most cars do have restrictive stock intakes. Also, yes, colder air is better. However, what I'm trying to point out is that on this car, the intake system is a ram air setup. A ram air setup imo should be considered at least, performance oriented. Snoopy is correct in everything he said, however, I don't buy there is that much restriction on the stock intake setup that a CAI will magically flow tons more air. You do get HP increase...lets say at most, 5WHP, but are you really going to notice 5WHP on a 300+ HP car? Let's take the two things Snoopy discussed...intake velocity, and intake temperature.

First, I would agree, in a normal OEM intake system with ribbed rubber hoses a mandrel bent CAI tube would be a better, less restrictive path for the incoming air being pulled in by the engine. However, as I keep saying, the intake on this car is a ram air setup. So, at idle and low speeds, sure, a CAI might flow more air and be less restrictive. When you start getting up to highway speeds and higher, the difference is likely overcome or at least evened out by the fact the movement of the car is "forcing" the air in, albeit through a more restrictive path. This is partially why it's restrictive to a degree. If you didn't have that bend before the OEM airbox, you'd get water in there at speed when it was raining. So, yes, a CAI will be a less restrictive intake path than OEM in general, but you need to take into account the ram air properties at speeds.

Second, yes, the colder the air the better...always always always. A CAI will generally be taking air from a lower position down near the road surface, and in most cases, yes, that will be slightly cooler. However, you need to consider the high temperatures in the summer when the sun beats on the pavement. I'm sure a lot of you have seen when you are driving on those really hot days how there is that water like shimmering over the pavement as you drive down the road. On these sorts of days, the temperature just over the pavement where the CAI is pulling from can actually be much hotter than the ambient air up higher. How many times at race events have you heard them talk about the temps down at track level?

So, all I'm basically saying about a CAI is that it is something that will add some power, and is popular to do, it's just not going to make that much difference overall...IMO, over the "performance oriented" intake of this car. I don't expect everyone to agree. Hell, I might even get one someday just because of it looking better under the hood, but the fact you need to install replacement washer fluid tank that is no longer hidden like the stock one sort of offsets the better looks of the CAI itself...again...IMO. The last reason that always gets me with a CAI is "bang for the buck". I think we can all agree a CAI is not a terribly complicated, highly engineered piece of equipment. Yes, the MAF housing size needs to be tweaked to lean out the mixture, but it really boils down to being a tube with a filter. Now, when a CAI, like for this car is over $300...that seems a bit steep to me for what you really get in real world performance gains.

All that being said...I had a Injen on my Mazdaspeed 6...and I loved it.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...MS6/ETS001.jpg